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Big Ten Divisions- Latest: Officially East/West split, no more Leaders/Legends

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 craigharmann Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#21

Posted: September 02, 2010, 6:25 AM Post
Posts: 1559
I am surprised. I thought it would go down this way:

West
Nebraska
Iowa
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Illinois

East
Ohio State
Penn State
Michigan
Michigan State
Purdue
Indiana


To me this makes the most sense geographically, and it keeps most of the natural rivalries intact. But what do I know?
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 litesrn Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#22

Posted: September 02, 2010, 7:42 AM Post
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Upon further reflection, all they had to do was swap IU with the Goofs, and then I'd be much less unhappy. I still wouldn't love it, but it wouldn't chafe as much as it does now.
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 owbc Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#23

Posted: September 02, 2010, 10:36 AM Post
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The Weatherman
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Valpo has some legitimate points, but I'm going to take a shot at responding to them:

 Iowa, Nebraska, Michigan, MSU, and Northwestern are all mediocre teams -- whichever team happens to be having an "up" year or stretch of years will waltz to the championship game where a lucky bounce puts them in the Rose Bowl. Iowa especially benefitted from this, with a protected rival being Purdue, they can get to the championship without facing anyone. This fact should infuriate Badger fans.

Iowa still is going to have to play at least one of Wisconsin, Ohio State, or Penn State every year in non-divisional play--and then they will have to play a second in the championship game if they survive the first game. Even if they draw an easy schedule and "waltz" to the championship game, they will have to play the top team in the other division in the championship game. The only way they win on a lucky bounce is if they were good enough to play a close game. If a different team is having an "up" year, then they deserve to be rewarded and go to the championship game. The championship game format ensures that nobody waltzes to the Rose Bowl since they have to play an extra game against a top team. The 11-team Big Ten sent Purdue and Illinois to the Rose Bowl in the past 10 years--and those mistakes will be prevented under the new format.

If Michigan ever rises to prominence again and makes the other division half respectable, we have back-to-back MI-OSU matchups to look forward to. Boring. Not to mention, a split essentially results in a tie, taking away their bragging rights for a clear yearly winner and leaving controversy about true conference champ in its wake.

Good point and this could happen. If it does, the Big Ten will have the ammo that it needs to move the Big Game earlier in the year--which is what it wanted to do if the fans didn't intervene.

If I was in Iowa's shoes, I'd be jumping for joy right now. Ugghhh.
Iowa and Wisconsin both play Penn State and Nebraska in 2011 and 2012. The only difference is that Wisconsin will have to face Ohio State in the regular season and Iowa gets Michigan. It looks unfair now, but both Ohio State and Michigan will have new coaches in 2-4 years. Things could quickly reverse.

Add to this the unfair travel schedule for both the Badger team and its fans -- neutralizing one of our advantages, fan support in places like Iowa City and Evanston -- and it's extra worse to be a Badger right now.
I seem to remember a number of games in both Evanston and Iowa City going terribly wrong. I agree that losing the Iowa game is an unfortunate consequence, but it isn't terrible for Wisconsin's postseason chances. The realignment isn't going to be perfect for everyone, but overall it will make the Big Ten more interesting and help in gain back the national respect that has been badly lacking.
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 LouisEly Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#24

Posted: September 02, 2010, 12:07 PM Post
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After thinking this through, I realized what they were doing. By having Michigan and Ohio State in separate divisions (as well as Penn State and Nebraska) while maintaining their rivalries in the regular season they were setting themselves up for the potential revenue windfall of two Michigan-OSU/Penn State-Nebraska games each year should each make the championship game.

It was all about money.

The other possibility is that going just off of national name recognition alone you would have to rank them Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska. While Wisconsin and Iowa have strong programs they don't have the national following that those four schools have. And then they would have arguably the three biggest name recognition schools in the same division.
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 PeaveyFury Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#25

Posted: September 02, 2010, 12:25 PM Post
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I don't get why you think it will take two decades for Michigan to rebuild. It took Alvarez four years.

This all hinges on Rich R. this year- if they stink and fire him, they will probably bring in a coach with another different offensive scheme, setting them back another 3 years. It took Alvarez 4 years, but Michigan won't wait 4 years.
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 T B0NE 10 Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#26

Posted: September 02, 2010, 12:56 PM Post
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This is so stupid.

They just should of kept the rivalries in the same divisions if they weren't going to pay attention to geography.

This whole locking in a game each year just makes the schedules more uneven. (Lucky us I guess, I'd rather play Minnesota than have a chance at playing Michigan more often.) But why not just keep the rivals together and get more scheduling equality and flexibility.
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 NDOG44 Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#27

Posted: September 03, 2010, 12:13 AM Post
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It does suck that 18 months out, I can predict Iowa-Ohio State in the first Big Ten championship game, and I'll probably be right.  I agree with valpo about Iowa benefitting from this the most.  I mean, in the short term, have Iowa-Nebraska basically for a berth in the big game.  But wait, even if Nebraska wins, they still have to play Penn State.  And Iowa gets Purdue.  So depending on which two team they play, Iowa is at a huge advantage every year, at least for the short term (next five years).
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 paul253 Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#28

Posted: September 03, 2010, 4:50 AM Post
Posts: 123
wful. You take the two programs that are clearly the cream of the crop for Big Ten football, tOSU and Penn State, and put them in the same division -- big mistake. It's not so awful that Wisconsin has to play the two top teams, you need to beat the best if you want to be the best, but it's awful that some team in the other division is going to cakewalk to the championship game every year. Iowa, Nebraska, Michigan, MSU, and Northwestern are all mediocre teams

Valpo I couldn't disagree with you more.  Yes, Ohio St is clearly the best Big 10 team going into this year, but Penn St is probably the 5th best team this year, if you include Nebraska.  Penn St is not "clearly" the cream of the Big 10 crop like Ohio St is.  Iowa and Wisconsin have been better than them the past few years and this year I'd be willing to guess Nebraska is better than them this year too.  And Michigan is down, but its been two years for pete's sake.  You act like they are now on par with Indiana.  Last season they played two freshmen quarterbacks.  Most of their regulars were either freshmen or sophomores.  And don't undervalue how difficult it is for a program like them to switch to a spread offense.  It takes time.  If they don't do well this season, Rodriguez will be gone and they'll go back to a more traditional offense.  Every program goes through what they are going through.  Penn St did.  Nebraska did.  Even Ohio St did.  You are also ignoring the fact that Wisconsin's division has the two worst programs in Indiana and Illinois.  Michigan St and Northwestern look like national title contenders compared to those two. 

Right now, I would categorize the Big 10 teams like this

Tier 1- Ohio St
Tier 2- Iowa, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Penn St
Tier 3- Northwestern, Michigan, Michigan St, Purdue
Tier 4- Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota.

Ohio St has to go somewhere.  They are going to make their division look better.  But overall, I don't think you can argue the competitive fairness of the two divisions. 
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 T B0NE 10 Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#29

Posted: September 03, 2010, 6:06 AM Post
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I would say Penn St and Nebraska are a tier higher than Iowa and UW though... That all could change this year though
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 homer Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#30

Posted: September 03, 2010, 7:47 AM Post
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Iowa was .500 in the Big Ten in 2007 and 5 - 3 in 2008. There's a good chance they fall back to mediocrity after the current class graduates.

Like I said, it's all cyclical.
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 paul253 Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#31

Posted: September 03, 2010, 10:38 AM Post
Posts: 123
I would say Penn St and Nebraska are a tier higher than Iowa and UW though... That all could change this year though

In terms of national prominence, yes.  In terms of on-field results, I'd say no.  Wisconsin has been very consistent.  And Iowa is building a very good program under a very good coach. 
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 homer Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#32

Posted: September 03, 2010, 2:36 PM Post
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I don't know if Iowa is really building anything anymore. They are what they are; a good but not great program that will vie for a Big Ten Title every five years or so. Similar to UW.

Ferentz has been there 12 years already. I don't think he's building anything anymore.
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 pitchleague Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#33

Posted: September 04, 2010, 2:42 AM Post
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valpocrewsader said:
I'm not looking forward to inferior teams from the mediocre division getting a shot at the big ten championship game every year while two better teams from the good division sit home. And I think it will be this way for 20 years.
I'm not arguing with you, but hasn't this pretty much been the case in the Big 12 for many years now?  Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, OK State, and A & M duking it out in the Big 12 South, while also-rans like Iowa State, Kansas State, and Missouri run-away with the very weak North division?
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 paul253 Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#34

Posted: September 04, 2010, 6:25 AM Post
Posts: 123
I don't know if Iowa is really building anything anymore. They are what they are; a good but not great program that will vie for a Big Ten Title every five years or so. Similar to UW.
Ferentz has been there 12 years already. I don't think he's building anything anymore.

Yeah but at how far they've come in the last, say, 10 years.  2 BCS games (which is the same number of BCS games as Penn St over the same time).  A Capitol One Bowl (which is probably the best non-BCS bowl).  A preseason top 10 ranking this year with a real good shot at making another BCS bowl.  I don't know why some people are calling them "mediocre".  Same with Nebraska.  Nebraska was a field goal away from making the BCS last season and have a preseason top 10 ranking again this season.  They've been set back by a couple of bad coaching decisions lately but are definitely on the way up as opposed to on the way down.  As far as Wisconsin goes.  I don't think there is a team in the country that consistently does more with less.

The fact is, whatever division Ohio St was put in is going to be considered the better division.  But looking at last year, and going into this year, I think the next two best teams are Nebraska and Iowa, and they are both in the other division.  Once Michigan gets back to being Michigan, these divisions will look a lot more even.  I just don't understand how some view the divisions as hands down one being better than the other, because I don't think they are.
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 Katuluu Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#35

Posted: September 04, 2010, 10:00 AM Post
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paul253 said:
Yeah but at how far they've come in the last, say, 10 years.  2 BCS games (which is the same number of BCS games as Penn St over the same time).  A Capitol One Bowl (which is probably the best non-BCS bowl).  A preseason top 10 ranking this year with a real good shot at making another BCS bowl. 

Thing is its still not as good a run as back during Fry's heyday in the 80's when they went to 3 Rose Bowls in 10 years and spent much of 1985 as the #1 team in the country (which also include one of the best #1 vs #2 games in college football history when Iowa beat Michigan 12-10 on the games final play.) They also had the second best winning percentage in the Big Ten behind Michigan for the decade.
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 davego Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#36

Posted: September 06, 2010, 7:07 AM Post
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Not that it matters, but I like Craig's divisions quite a bit.
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 craigharmann Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#37

Posted: September 06, 2010, 9:18 AM Post
Posts: 1559
davego said:
Not that it matters, but I like Craig's divisions quite a bit.
It doesn't matter, but it makes me feel good! Thanks!
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 owbc Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#38

Posted: September 06, 2010, 11:35 AM Post
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The Weatherman
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I like Craig's divisions also, but I wouldn't like them if I was a fan of any of the 6 teams in the division of death. 
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 craigharmann Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#39

Posted: September 06, 2010, 10:08 PM Post
Posts: 1559
obsessedwithbrewcrew said:
I like Craig's divisions also, but I wouldn't like them if I was a fan of any of the 6 teams in the division of death. 
Well, I was going by strictly geography. Which is probably why the powers that be didn't. You'd have one division with a bunch of really tough teams and then a division with the other guys. Which pretty much has been the way the Big 12 was distributed. In the South, You've got all the Texas team, Oklahoma, and those are really tough matchups. In the North you've got Nebraska and then the other guys. It seemed to work for them......sorta.
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 homer Official Big Ten Division Split Thread
#40

Posted: September 07, 2010, 2:10 AM Post
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paul253 said:
I don't know if Iowa is really building anything anymore. They are what they are; a good but not great program that will vie for a Big Ten Title every five years or so. Similar to UW.
Ferentz has been there 12 years already. I don't think he's building anything anymore.

Yeah but at how far they've come in the last, say, 10 years.  2 BCS games (which is the same number of BCS games as Penn St over the same time).  A Capitol One Bowl (which is probably the best non-BCS bowl).  A preseason top 10 ranking this year with a real good shot at making another BCS bowl.  I don't know why some people are calling them "mediocre". 
I don't know who's calling them mediocre. I called them good. UW has had similar success the last ten years and I wouldn't call them elite or anything. Iowa had success under Ferentz in 2002 when a wily Brad Banks led them to an 8 - 0 record. They slipped to a 2-6 record in the Big Ten in 2006, went .500 in the Big Ten in 2007 before slowly building back up to the level they are at now. I just don't think they are the type of program to have continued success year after year (ala Ohio St or Michigan if they ever get a decent coach).  So my point is not so much to pick on Iowa as to point out that teams/programs will ebb and flow in terms of success and we can't project current success 10 or even 5 years down the road. Even OSU was mediocre for a couple of spells in the late 80's and early 90's and again in the late 90's early '00's. It just takes one or two average recruiting classes to significantly impact a team.
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