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Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers

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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#1

Posted: August 24, 2011, 1:48 PM Post
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Hard getting any news out here other than the rose (bowl) colored glasses view of the articles they put up on UWBadgers.com.  So what's the skinny there?  What does the depth chart look like?  They open the season in one week, and lots of questions:

1) Is Wilson legit, or will he be an overrated transfer like Allan Everidge?
2) Is Borland healthy, and if so, can he stay healthy?
3) How does their WR depth look after losing so many seniors?
4) Can David Gilbert somewhat replace Watt?
5) Can Pederson (or another TE) somewhat replace Kendricks?  Will they have a receiving threat other than Toon, or will teams be able to consistently put 8 in the box?
6) Will some of the athletes they have recruited step up and become good defensive backs?

Not worried about OL - they say Frederick is/was one of their best lineman so I'm not worried about him taking over LG, and Wagner replaced Oglesby on the right side last year because he was their third best tackle.  Being a former TE, Wagner may actually be more agile than Carimi and might handle the speed rush better. 


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#2

Posted: August 24, 2011, 10:08 PM Post
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1) Is Wilson legit, or will he be an overrated transfer like Allan Everidge?

The two aren't comparable.  One is a three year starter, two time all ACC QB with 93 total touchdowns in three years  (Scott Tolzien had 35 total touchdowns as a Badger).  Let that sink in a second.  The other was a guy that PLAYED as a freshman at Kansas State and didn't embarrass himself.  He didn't complete even half his passes and he didn't throw more touchdowns than interceptions.  Evridge was overhyped from day 1 because he was supposedly a dual threat QB. 

Wilson?  He's a real dual threat.  He's the real deal, and his transfer basically saved this year's season before it started.  They were always going to be good, now the possibilities for great things are there.  Wilson was also voted offensive captain after two? months with the team.   


2) Is Borland healthy, and if so, can he stay healthy?

Borland is healthy, your guess is as good as mine whether or not he can STAY healthy.  What's been a frustrating them over the last two plus years is that Borland and Mike Taylor can't ever seem to get on the field at the same time.  And that's continued this fall with Taylor being out at camp.  I don't think it's serious, but with both these guys in the lineup, the defense is going to be good.

3) How does their WR depth look after losing so many seniors?

Since you brought up TEs a couple questions down, I won't mention Kendricks, but David Gilreath and Isaac Anderson weren't anything too irreplaceable I don't think.  The key obviously is Nick Toon staying healthy.  To me, Toon has been as disappointing and overrated as they come.  But that doesn't mean I don't realize he's the best WR on the team by far and has the potential to be a scary weapon.  Abbrederis is the other starter, and he's just as good as the two aforementioned guys that are gone.  I believe Kenzel Doe and Jeff Duckworth are the second stringers as of now, and a couple other freshmen have been mentioned as candidates for PT...Fred Willis and Jordan Frederick, who was recruited as a LB I believe.  Toon is the key.  Also keep an eye out for Manaseh Garner, who I'm not sure where he will line up, but he's on offense now after playing all over last year.

4) Can David Gilbert somewhat replace Watt?

I don't know if anyone is going to REPLACE Watt, but then again, weren't people saying that about Shaughnessy and Schofield as well?  Gilbert is up to 255 pounds, and I'm going to predict that by the end of his Badgers career he's going to be a star and a highish NFL draft pick.  His athleticism has been on display since he got here on special teams.  And I believe he's 19 years old right now as a junior.  Also I think Nzegwu is going to be good on the other side, and Brendan Kelly supposedly can play too, he just hasn't been on the field due to injuries.  Inside, they basically have four starters for their two spots, averaging 296 pounds...three of them sophomores.  The defensive line is good.

5) Can Pederson (or another TE) somewhat replace Kendricks?  Will they have a receiving threat other than Toon, or will teams be able to consistently put 8 in the box?

I read something a while ago about Pedersen having the potential to be the best TE the Badgers have had. I'm not sure I buy that, but he did start in the Rose Bowl as a freshman, and he was the guy wide open on the "Tank Carder tip."  They also have Jake Byrne as the blocker, and Sherard Cadogan who's listed at fullback.  Also, as I said earlier, keep an eye out for Manaseh Garner as that other receiving threat you mention.  When it's all said and done I see Garner as the guy we'll be talking about a lot.  He's going to be out the first game with a hernia? I believe.

6) Will some of the athletes they have recruited step up and become good defensive backs?

Fenelus and Henry are going to be all conference candidates.  Devin Smith and Marcus Cromartie are the co-starters on the other side of Fenelus.  Shelton Johnson beat out Dezmen Southward at the other safety spot.  All in all, this is a pretty good group compared to recent years.  They don't have the Fletcher, Starks, or Echols on the team, but overall I'm at ease with the group.  I think Southward will end up playing on Sundays as well, with his athleticism.  He just needs to get more and more experience after only playing one year of high school football.  He'll be in the lineup with Johnson next year after Henry leaves, and from the sounds of things didn't LOSE that job, Johnson just won it.  


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#3

Posted: August 25, 2011, 3:44 AM Post
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ESPN did their Big Ten preview last night and Luginbill and Urban Meyer did a film study on Russell Wilson. Meyer loved his mechanics and ability to escape the pocket. They also showed him taking a hit in the pocket and completing a pass over the middle. Something the Badgers seem to do on a weekly basis. They mentioned his lower than desired completion percentage but behind a huge O Line and dominant run game that might go up. They talked about possible disruption in the locker room but that appears to not be happening at all. So all in all, they were pretty impressed with him. Remains to be seen, but I think he'll be a good QB. I just hope people aren't expecting 30 TDs and 5 INTs or anything. I would think a conservative estimate would be 20TD/ 10INT along with a few rushing TDs.

The schedule is a little hairy in October with trips to MSU and OSU. I think both have an axe to grind against UW. MSU for having to share the title and OSU for getting their arse handed to them on national TV. Regardless of the coaching situation, OSU will still be a really tough team. I could easily see the Badgers losing three Big Ten games this season. I hope I'm wrong.


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#4

Posted: August 25, 2011, 8:25 AM Post
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David Gilreath and Isaac Anderson weren't anything too irreplaceable I don't think

From a talent standpoint, no they aren't too irreplaceable (Gilreath on special teams though, while not often spectacular, was solid and rarely made mistakes). From an experience standpoint, has anyone other than Toon or Abbrederis ever caught a pass in a game? My concern is inexperience resulting in running wrong routes, not coming back to the ball, and drops/fumbles/the "yips". Especially with a new QB they have limited experience practicing with.

As for Toon being overrated, IIRC Toon wasn't a top recruit to begin with. People think he was a bigger recruit than he was because of his dad. If his last name was Lipschuitz people wouldn't say he was overrated.

What's been a frustrating them over the last two plus years is that Borland and Mike Taylor can't ever seem to get on the field at the same time.

What's interesting is that the only senior LB on the roster is Kevin Claxton - this is a group that could be very good this year, and scary good next year.

weren't people saying that about Shaughnessy and Schofield as well?

I wasn't saying that, certainly about Shaughnessy - I thought he was soft and undersized. The defense made a huge upgrade when they got some size in Watt, Moore, etc. When 265lb. Mike Newkirk is playing DT, that's a problem.


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#5

Posted: August 25, 2011, 9:31 AM Post
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Hmmm.  Soft and undersized? Freshman All American and all conference honorable mention, 2nd team all conference as a sophomore, 2nd team all conference and Team MVP as a junior, and all conference honorable mention in an injury plagued senior year.  270 pound third round draft pick and starting DE in the NFL.  You've got something against him for some reason.  Maybe because he was 220 pounds when he came in?  He gained 40-50 in his Wisconsin years.  I agree that they were a bit small along the line for some years, but other than maybe his freshman year Shaughnessy wasn't the problem in that respect.  Defensive ends in the college game aren't 290 for the most part...hell they aren't in the NFL either in 4-3 defenses.  Watt was an exception.  My point was that every year it's been next man in.  

Toon wasn't a five star recruit by any means, but behind the two gems of that class John Clay and Josh Oglesby, Toon was considered the third best recruit.  You're right if his name was Nick Lipschuitz he wouldn't be considered overrated...he'd just be considered pretty ordinary, which is my point.  There was all that talk about him entering the draft last year, and I'm sorry that was laughable.  That's what I'm saying.  But he has the physical attributes to get there, which is why he's frustrating.  But yes, for the Badgers he was a "top recruit."


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#6

Posted: August 25, 2011, 10:28 AM Post
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But yes, for the Badgers he was a "top recruit."
----------------

I would argue he was part of the second tier of that class. He wasn't really third best behind Clay and Oglesby. He was a member of a group of about five that were all considered about the same in terms of recruiting status.


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#7

Posted: August 25, 2011, 12:28 PM Post
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http://rivals.yahoo.com/wisconsin/football/recruiting/commitments/2007


I remember all stories mentioning Clay, Oglesby, and Toon.  

EDIT:  Found one  

A 6'3 200 pound WR that ran a 4.4 40 and is the son of an NFL star?  Why wouldn't he be a top recruit?

EDIT:  I'm not saying that he was as highly regarded as Clay and Oglesby were.



Last edited by NDOG44 on August 25, 2011, 12:43 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#8

Posted: August 25, 2011, 3:29 PM Post
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A 6'3 200 pound WR that ran a 4.4 40 and is the son of an NFL star?  Why wouldn't he be a top recruit?
----------------

Well according to Scout.com he was a three star along with a bunch of other guys.

He had 54 catches his sophomore season. He was hurt most of his junior season. If anything he's probably underrated this year because of his down season in 2010.

Anyway, it's not worth arguing about.


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#9

Posted: August 26, 2011, 2:39 PM Post
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"He gained 40-50 in his Wisconsin years."

Uh, no he didn't. He was maybe 250 as a senior (and IIRC was listed at 250). I vividly recall seeing him with his shirt off on the sidelines of a game and thinking that I was more muscular than him and I'm 6'3" 220. He didn't bulk up to 270 until before the combine (266 at the combine to be precise). I'll grant you that he was nicked up his senior year. But he only had 8 TFL and 4 sacks as a senior and played every game. Point being, I certainly never said he was irreplaceable.

To Homer's point, Toon missed four games last year. If he would have played all 13 he would have projected to about as many catches as he did as a sophomore, slightly fewer yards, but more TDs. If you want to crutch Shaughnessy's senior year as being hurt, then you have to crutch Toon's year last year too. Also hard to catch a lot of balls when you come up six yards short of having three 1,000 yard rushers.


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#10

Posted: August 27, 2011, 1:18 AM Post
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Toon's problem isn't getting the ball enough, it's dropping it when it comes.  The Michigan State loss sticks out in my mind with drops and an untimely block in the back penalty on a long first down run.  Oh and then whining after the game about getting the ball.  The games he missed is not what I'm talking about, it's when he's on the field.  I don't dislike Toon whatsoever, he's just been a disappointment.  Then I started hearing about how he might come out early, and I was floored.  He needs to do more this year on the field as far as production goes, and I'm sure he will.  

And as far as Shaughnessy goes he came in at 210, was listed at 253 his senior year, that's 43 pounds...so, uh yes he did gain 40-50 pounds.  My guess is as good as yours when he got up to 266 at the combine.  Of course he doesn't "look" muscular, he's 6'6".  My buddy and old roommate played the same position for the Badgers and didn't necessarily "look" like some bodybuilder either.  This one instance where you saw him without his shirt on has influenced your feelings.  Don't forget his brother DIED right before his senior year too.  Why not talk about how O'Brien Schofield was barely 240 playing DE?  And anyway, I never said I or anyone else thought he was irreplaceable, we just wondered who was going to replace him along the line.  Again my point is that it's next man in.  




Last edited by NDOG44 on August 27, 2011, 1:21 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#11

Posted: August 27, 2011, 2:59 AM Post
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Toon's problem isn't getting the ball enough, it's dropping it when it comes.

That's why he wasn't a top recruit despite being 6'3", 200, and running a 4.40. I think Rivals had him overrated - literally - because of his name; like Homer I recall him being a 3-star recruit by most, a tier below the top guys. IIRC he didn't start playing football until high school - his parents never forced it on him at a young age. If he had good hands he would have consistently been a 4 or 5 star recruit.

I'd argue that one of the reasons they lost the Rose Bowl was because they rarely if ever ran the quick flanker screen to Toon, a play that could have opened up the middle of the field for their running game. I don't recall them running that play more than once, or ever even faking that play to draw the defense toward the outside and then running the draw. Obviously every good skill position player with self confidence is going to be frustrated and feel like if they had the ball more they could have changed the outcome of a game they lost that they should have won; maturity shows that while you think that you shouldn't say that.


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#12

Posted: August 27, 2011, 7:48 AM Post
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When you drop half of the passes thrown to you, you should really never complain about getting the ball more.  That's not maturity, that's just dumb.  My point is that in the two games that they lost, Toon made huge mistakes, Michigan State especially, his mistakes directly affected the outcome...then he complained about not getting the ball.  

I stand by my link on the article about the recruiting class.  He was plenty good as a football player in high school.  Saying he wasn't a top recruit because he had bad hands is a stretch unless you saw him play in high school.  I'm guessing you didn't, I know I didn't.  That's just an assumption you're making to argue with me.  He was a top recruit and was looked at as one of the jewels of the class, even if he was only 3 stars for Scout.  I never said he wasn't a tier below national studs like Clay and Oglebsy.  Pretty much every recruit not named Carl McCullough in the last 20 years has been a "tier below" those two guys.   

/grfx.cstv.com/schools/wis/graphics/wis-11-bg-wrap-story.jpg);">http://grfx.cstv.com/scho...s-11-bg-wrap-story.jpg); background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; width: 1000px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px; background-repeat: no-repeat repeat; ">

High School: Ranked among top 30 players in Midwest and earned All-America honors from SuperPrep ... earned All-America honors from PrepStar ... rated among top 25 receivers nationally and the No. 3 player overall in Wisconsin by Rivals.com ... first-team all-state selection in 2006 after earning second-team honors as a junior in 2005 ... two-time, first-team all-area return specialist ... named to inaugural All-American Offense-Defense Bowl ... team captain as a senior ... made 51 receptions for 799 yards and registered 17 returns for 430 yards as a senior ... also scored 13 touchdowns and picked off two passes in final prep campaign ... 26 catches for 425 yards and six TDs as a junior ... football coach was Tim Simon ... also lettered in track



Last edited by NDOG44 on August 27, 2011, 7:53 AM, edited 1 time in total.

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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#13

Posted: August 27, 2011, 12:27 PM Post
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Saying he wasn't a top recruit because he had bad hands is a stretch.

So is saying he dropped half the passes thrown to him.


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#14

Posted: August 27, 2011, 1:47 PM Post
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So is saying he dropped half the passes thrown to him.

In the Michigan State game?  You're right it is a stretch, I was being kind to him.  He dropped a much higher percentage than 50%.  He had one catch.  


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#15

Posted: August 29, 2011, 2:02 AM Post
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It was also his first game back after being out since the middle of the opening game when he sprained his knee. After watching that play I was surprised he was ready to go by the MSU game; it looked a lot more severe. IIRC he wasn't cleared to play in the MSU game until the last minute, so he probably hadn't had much practice time the last four weeks (missed three games) so his timing was likely off. Practice is probably most important for QBs and WRs because of the timing involved. Like I said, if you want to crutch Shaughnessy's senior year (8 TFL, 4 sacks, played in every game) as being hurt then you have to crutch Toon's year last year too.

Point being, we are essentially on the same page - I said that I didn't think Toon was overrated because I never thought he was that great to begin with. He's a great athlete with average football skills.


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#16

Posted: September 01, 2011, 12:31 PM Post
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Toon's problem hasn't been drops. His problem has been staying healthy. I think many of his drops have come from a lack of full focus by playing hurt. Even guys as good as Jennings and DD have had the same issue.  He didn't have drop issues until his injury plagued year last season.

If he stays healthy, he'll be a huge weapon.  Thinking he has bricks for hands based on last season is, frankly, stupid.


Last edited by Ayt on September 01, 2011, 12:34 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#17

Posted: September 13, 2011, 9:10 AM Post
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Toon: so far so good. He has been very important to the passing game so far.


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#18

Posted: October 01, 2011, 2:02 PM Post
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I'm not really a Wisconsin fan, but all I have to say is WOW.  In my opinion the Big Ten ranks like this:

Wisconsin:







Everyone else except Indiana, Purdue and Minnesota:











Indiana and Purdue:





Minnesota:


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#19

Posted: October 01, 2011, 3:47 PM Post
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I have never seen a Badger team like this. I remember watching the Bevell-led team win the Rose Bowl. I remember seeing a lot of good Badger teams come through since then, but holy crap these guys are light years ahead of everyone else. Wilson is so composed and has every skill necessary, and he seems to make the right decision every time. I was a little worried about that first big game after all the cupcakes, but they just treated a top 10 team in the nation like a cupcake.

Will you have this left guard to be the 224th pick?

~ReverendBrewmeister


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  Your 2011 Wisconsin Badgers
#20

Posted: October 01, 2011, 5:47 PM Post
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This has to be the best team in UW history. Russell Wilson is an incredible weapon unlike anything they've ever had. If this team doesn't go undefeated in Big Ten play, I'll be disappointed.


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