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My pitch for a RB

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  My pitch for a RB
#1

Posted: January 24, 2008, 3:20 PM Post
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I know the need/desire for a DB has intensified after the Packers loss to the Giants in the NFC Championship game, a need that was already well documented around here and a need that I have openly expressed that I was a little surprised that wasn't addressed in last year's draft.

I have also openly supported the idea of obtaining a RB, particularly someone like Felix Jones if he were to fall within 10 picks of the Packers selection (meaning early 20s in a trade-up scenario). This was also talked about when discussing the story in the MJS that suggested the Packers were interested in improving their running game for next season.

I bring this point up because of the reactions teams like the Seahawks, Saints and the Chiefs received when they drafted the likes of Shaun Alexander, Deuce McAllister and Larry Johnson in the first round when they already had established backs in Rickey Watters, Ricky Williams and Priest Holmes respectively.

There are other similar examples of teams with somewhat competent backs already in place that still used a first-round pick on a running back. Heck, the Vikings are one of those examples, taking Adrian Peterson last year when Chester Taylor ran for over 1,200 yards in 2006. Some claim Peterson was a can't-miss type of player, but many believed at the time that the Vikings could have gone a lot of different direcitons with that pick.

The Saints again took a RB in Reggie Bush, even if they used him in a variety of ways, despite the presence of McAllister.

The Patriots took Laurence Maroney when they had Corey Dillon. The Bears took Cedric Benson when they had Thomas Jones. The Rams took Steven Jackson when they had Marshall Faulk. The Falcons took T.J. Duckett after signing Warrick Dunn. Each of these scenarios have a different set of reasons for taking these players, from aging (Dillon & Faulk) to an unsettled position (Jones) to what created a unique running tandem that the NFL may never have seen before (Dunn and Duckett along with Vick).

And it doesn't really matter how you view these situations, even if you remember how they happened or through the power of hindsight. The point is that all of these teams had (or still have) a very strong running game because of the picks they made on the players listed above.

Heck, of the top 10 active rushing leaders, 7 are former first-round picks. Of the top 20, 12 are former first-round picks.

Stretching it to the all-time rushing list, 9 of the top 10 leaders are former first-round picks with 15 out of 20. The five that aren't former first-rounders from the all-time list, 4 were 2nd rounders and the other was a 3rd rounder.

For the most part, with running backs what you see is what you get, and there don't seem to be too many surprises or sleepers at the position, and there also don't seem to be too many disappointments either (William Green not withstanding). Sure, there are always exceptions to the rule, with Terrell Davis being a popular name people point to. But the bottom line is that if any team wants to get the most bang for their buck with a running back, in the short and long term, the first round is the way to go.

I'm not suggesting the Packers should reach for a RB that isn't first-round worthy, but if one of Jonathan Stewart, Rashard Mendenhall or Felix Jones gets close to the Packers pick I personally feel they should pounce on one of those guys given their desire to improve their power running game despite the presence of Grant, Wynn, Jackson or whoever else.


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  My pitch for a RB
#2

Posted: January 24, 2008, 3:31 PM Post
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I'm not suggesting the Packers should reach for a RB that isn't first-round worthy, but if one of Jonathan Stewart, Rashard Mendenhall or Felix Jones gets close to the Packers pick I personally feel they should pounce on one of those guys given their desire to improve their power running game despite the presence of Grant, Wynn, Jackson or whoever else.
If one of those running backs is available, I am definitely on board. I guess it still depends on a few things for me, as there are several different positions that could have players fall and they would be an immediate upgrade for us.

Question for you Colby: If one of those backs fell into the early/mid-20's, how far would you be willing to trade up to get them, and at what cost?

Will you have this left guard to be the 224th pick?

~ReverendBrewmeister


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  My pitch for a RB
#3

Posted: January 24, 2008, 3:43 PM Post
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I am not against drafting a back. Not at all. I just don't see Jones, Stewart, or Mendenhall being around when we pick. If one of those three is still on the board I would absolutely love to see us draft him. A backfield duo of one of those three and Grant would be very potent and hard to stop.


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  My pitch for a RB
#4

Posted: January 24, 2008, 3:48 PM Post
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I have no problem with them potentially taking a RB if there's one there that they truly want, but I'm not big on trading up to get one. The team can really add an influx of talent/depth this year, and barring something stunning like McFadden falling to #20, I'm not sure that trading away our 2nd to move up is really worthwhile. But that's just my opinion.


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  My pitch for a RB
#5

Posted: January 24, 2008, 4:28 PM Post
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I wouldn't be upset at all. But I think Ryan Grant has shown that he's good enough, and I know I'm in the minority, but I think Deshawn Wynn showed a lot when he was on the field too.

I just think there is a glaring need in the defensive backfield. The corner depth is scary. And quite frankly Nick Collins is not that good. And Atari Bigby has his moments, but is HE really that good?

What Ryan Grant did is impressive over the season. But when you factor in that he didn't really play much around half the season, his numbers are very good. I understand that a guy like Felix Jones would be nice...but don't discount the fact that Thompson spent a pretty high pick on Brandon Jackson. It shouldn't necessarily, but that factors in to the equation.


EDIT: Also the way the season played out, it kind of weeded out the roles for the backs already on the team. Grant obviously is a starter. Wynn is talented, but maybe a #2 role fits him better...and Jackson could be a decent third down option. I just see a totally different picture at RB, and that's mostly because Ryan Grant manned up.


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  My pitch for a RB
#6

Posted: January 25, 2008, 4:30 AM Post
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I don't think there are too many people that would argue against taking a RB in the first round. I think if the RB is more talented than the CB I'd take the RB and be fine with it. I think it'll turn into more of a question of what the Packers feel about Brandon Jackson internally -- and to a smaller extent Wynn.

I do think Wynn has got somewhat of a bad rap on these boards. His attitude "problem" is something the Packers will deal with -- even if their is a problem. If one is going to classify Wynn as a player with an attitude and is lazy I could say the same about Harrell -- he couldn't pass his running drill in camp and he played his way off of the #1 defense. Is that an attitude problem? These guys are young and it may take a year or two for them to realize the time and effort it takes, but if we approach every situation like that we wouldn't have had Brett Favre more than a year or two.


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  My pitch for a RB
#7

Posted: January 25, 2008, 6:58 AM Post
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Question for you Colby: If one of those backs fell into the early/mid-20's, how far would you be willing to trade up to get them, and at what cost?

If any one of the three players I mentioned fell, I would use a 2nd to trade up, possibly to get ahead of the Cowboys and/or Seahawks who some seem to think may target a RB in the first round. The Texans may be another team, but I don't think a 2nd gets the Packers that far up. They can probably only get up 8 to 10 spots, with 8 being more realistic and 10 probably being a little ambitious.

The team can really add an influx of talent/depth this year, and barring something stunning like McFadden falling to #20, I'm not sure that trading away our 2nd to move up is really worthwhile.

While I definitely agree with this, part of my thinking is about how close the Packers were to making the Super Bowl. Depth is good, and TT obviously values draft picks to get as many quality players into the organization, but part of me thinks the team should take an aggressive risk or two to get a potential impact player should one fall to a position that would make it possible for the Packers to move up and acquire.

It also depends what they do on the free agent market. I have supported TT's approach to building from within, but he also needs to recognize when the time is right to strike while the iron is hot.

BTW, I too don't think any of those three guys falls, which is why I propose moving up.

Also the way the season played out, it kind of weeded out the roles for the backs already on the team. Grant obviously is a starter. Wynn is talented, but maybe a #2 role fits him better...and Jackson could be a decent third down option. I just see a totally different picture at RB, and that's mostly because Ryan Grant manned up.

And this is the best case against my proposal, because I agree with all of your points and I agree that the Packers probably view their situation at RB the same way. But again, I think a lot of people were surprised when the Saints and Seahawks in particular went out and drafted Deuce McAllister and Shaun Alexander respectively. Obviously, they were in a different situation with Williams and Watters, since both were in different situations as the Packers are with Grant. Again, I just like the idea of acquiring a potential gamebreaker at the RB position, and having two quality backs is an exciting thought, especially when it seems as though the passing game for the next few years should be relatively set.

Keep in mind this is also my proposal to improve the team's power running game. I'm not so sure the problem is the line. More than likely, it's a mix of a few different things.

As far as winning in January with a power running game goes, the team also failed in this respect when they have a power line with Wahle and Rivera on the interior and Ahman Green running behind them, although I seem to remember the team having problems in short yardage situations then as well. It probably doesn't help that Brett Favre has never been much of a QB sneak artist, or at least he never has had too many opportunities to do so.


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  My pitch for a RB
#8

Posted: January 25, 2008, 7:01 AM Post
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It probably doesn't help that Brett Favre has never been much of a QB sneak artist, or at least he never has had too many opportunities to do so.

Yeah, the fact that he doesn't ever attempt them really hurts our short yardage game. It seems all other teams on 3rd or 4th and a yard or less can convert doing that and we never try it.

Formerly BrewCrewIn2004


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  My pitch for a RB
#9

Posted: January 25, 2008, 7:09 AM Post
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When a defense pretty much knows that a QB sneak isn't coming, that doesn't help. It also doesn't help that the team doesn't, and hasn't had a FB for a few years now that is adept at running with the football (as opposed to catching passes out of the backfield). Again, if a defense knows that the ball is going to the tailback, it's less variables they have to deal with.


I don't think it is a coincidence that the Packers have had problems in short yardage situations for the past few years. Instead of trying to find a complementary RB to Grant as I have proposed, maybe they should try to find the second coming of Gerald Riggs, who is one of the best short yardage backs that I have ever seen in his days with the Redskins, and that's pretty much the only reason he was on their team.

EDIT: I remember feeling the same way a year ago, which led me and several others to be interested in Brian Leonard, a player they could have drafted a year ago had they not traded down in the 2nd round. I think I have talked myself into a 3rd/4th round type of picks for someone like Jacob Hester or Matt Forte, who profile in a similar fashion to Leonard, so thanks for listening to my ramblings Image.


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  My pitch for a RB
#10

Posted: January 25, 2008, 7:21 AM Post
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I do think Wynn has got somewhat of a bad rap on these boards. His attitude "problem" is something the Packers will deal with -- even if their is a problem. If one is going to classify Wynn as a player with an attitude and is lazy I could say the same about Harrell -- he couldn't pass his running drill in camp and he played his way off of the #1 defense. Is that an attitude problem?

Wynn had a history of attitude/work ethic issues in college, and already publically complained to the press about the Packers' putting him on IR this year. Comparing his attitude issues to Harrell who struggled to come back from his serious injury isn't really close at all, IMO.


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  My pitch for a RB
#11

Posted: January 25, 2008, 8:03 AM Post
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Wynn had a history of attitude/work ethic issues in college, and already publically complained to the press about the Packers' putting him on IR this year. Comparing his attitude issues to Harrell who struggled to come back from his serious injury isn't really close at all, IMO.

What's wrong with Wynn publicly complaining? Maybe he didn't understand how serious he was hurt or needed a wake up call. Al Harris threatened to hold out of training camp a few years ago, but is loved by many here. Harrell showed up overweight -- there's no reason he couldn't run on a treadmill and be able to pass that drill. I think Wynn's attitude problems are basically his work ethic and I think if that's true one can say Harrell has an attitude problem because he didn't have the work ethic to come into camp ready to play. He had an injured shoulder -- he should've passed a running drill.

And what about Favre? He's admitted he had a bad work ethic when he was young. I think we're jumping ship a little too fast on Wynn. He's a young player who has a lot to learn about the NFL and he needs to be dedicated if he wants to do well. There's a lot of other players out there I'd much rather not have in Green Bay than Wynn.


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  My pitch for a RB
#12

Posted: January 25, 2008, 8:20 AM Post
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Give the ball to Kuhn in short yardage. He has played halfback in college.

Formerly BrewCrewIn2004


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  My pitch for a RB
#13

Posted: January 25, 2008, 8:31 AM Post
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Al Harris threatened to hold out of training camp a few years ago, but is loved by many here.

This is from when Harris received his extension:
Harris, 32, sought to upgrade his contract last spring and summer and, toward that end, the ninth-year veteran skipped the optional segment of the Packers' offseason conditioning program under then-rookie coach Mike McCarthy. Team officials declined to address Harris' grievances with his contract and did not adjust it, and the veteran reported to training camp on time.
Link

I don't see anywhere in there that he threatened to hold out of training camp, and if I recall, he mostly kept it out of the public. I also have less of a problem with someone like Al Harris saying things like this because he's earned it. Deshawn Wynn has earned nothing.

Before the draft, Wynn was being projected as high as a 2nd round pick. Based on his work ethic and attitude problems, he dropped all the way to the 7th round. Obviously the Packers take these things into account, so if it was something they were worried about with Harrell, they wouldn't have picked him in the 1st round. I'll be honest; I don't know much about Harrell or his training camp "problems", but it wasn't like he was going to the press and complaining about his state with the team. Wynn proved little to nothing, then complained about his status.

Will you have this left guard to be the 224th pick?

~ReverendBrewmeister


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  My pitch for a RB
#14

Posted: January 25, 2008, 9:17 AM Post
Posts: 1243

Regarding Harris:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=nfl&id=1775

Per the link:

Harris indicated he may hold out

This is on several websites and sources. He ended up not holding out, but it was all over the media especially in Green Bay. It's not like Tauscher's deals have been where they are just announced.

Before the draft, Wynn was being projected as high as a 2nd round pick. Based on his work ethic and attitude problems, he dropped all the way to the 7th round. Obviously the Packers take these things into account, so if it was something they were worried about with Harrell, they wouldn't have picked him in the 1st round. I'll be honest; I don't know much about Harrell or his training camp "problems", but it wasn't like he was going to the press and complaining about his state with the team. Wynn proved little to nothing, then complained about his status.

What attitude problems? Again this is my point -- I don't think it's fair to throw blanketed statements around regarding a players attitude. You contradict yourself by saying the Packers look into these things with Harrell -- then why draft Wynn? Because it's a late pick?

Harrell failed his running drill at training camp. He couldn't make it through it because he wasn't in shape. He technically couldn't practice until he passed it -- which he did a few days later. Wynn was the Packers best running back at the time of the injury. If the worst thing Wynn does is complain about being put on IR, I think he's a fine player. He probably handled it wrong, but this is a young kid who maybe didn't realize how serious it was or wanted to keep playing. If Favre would complain about missing a game, would we say oh there he goes complaining about his status? Or would we say Favre never wants to sit out? Maybe Wynn is more competitive than all the "work ethic, attitude" problems and wanted to play the rest of the year. I'm not going to criticize Wynn for publicly saying he wants to play.



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  My pitch for a RB
#15

Posted: January 25, 2008, 11:25 AM Post
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Wynn proved little to nothing? He earned the starting RB position! He averagaed over 4 yards per carry and scored 4 touchdowns in like 6 games.

Again, I'm now a Ryan Grant guy, but I don't want to hear how Grant was still learning the playbook and that's why he didn't start right away...was Wynn studying the Green Bay Packers playbook all through his time at the University of Florida?

He seemed to be sidelined by little injuries, but that's about the only knock you can have on Wynn. When on the field, he proved a LOT more than nothing. In fact, he proved he's better than Brandon Jackson.


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  My pitch for a RB
#16

Posted: January 25, 2008, 11:35 AM Post
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I'm happy with Grant right now and I think we need to address something in the secondary with our early picks.


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  My pitch for a RB
#17

Posted: January 25, 2008, 11:43 AM Post
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What attitude problems?

There's no question Wynn would have been drafted much higher were it not for his lack of motivation. -Tom Silverstein

"So I'm like, 'OK, that's how it works.' So after that, I go out and practice and there's no purpose to give everything I've got if they still have this man starting. I started to get into that mode and it carried to my sophomore year. -Deshawn Wynn

So do you REALLY want to compare the 'attitude problems' of a guy who wasn't in ideal shape coming off a serious injury with a guy that flat out admitted that he wasn't going to give it his all unless he was the starter?

Again, I don't think they're even in the same stratosphere in terms of 'attitude issues'.


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  My pitch for a RB
#18

Posted: January 25, 2008, 11:50 AM Post
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Our RB situation isnt that horrible to me.

Grant I think is the answer, he was awesome this year.

I think Brandon Jackson has nice potential and should be a great backup for us, and if Grant flukes or gets injured, Id say he could have potential to give us a RB controversy

Wynn, if he could get his head on straight I think we would have a great trio of backs.

Our secondary needs help, and if we dont address it I wont be happy. We need a nickel back, we need depth, we need better safetys


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  My pitch for a RB
#19

Posted: January 26, 2008, 5:05 PM Post
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we need better safetys

I think they just need to figure out who is the best combo between Collins, Bigby and Rouse. All three have showed great flashes they just need to figure out who are the best combo to start. Also I would like to see what Peprah can do this coming preseason as a possible backup again.

Formerly BrewCrewIn2004


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  My pitch for a RB
#20

Posted: January 26, 2008, 7:45 PM Post
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i think we may have waited long enough for collins to reach his potential....


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